Carpet Cleaning Referral Marketing: How to Attract High-End Clients

Start with influential gatekeepers—interior designers and estate managers. Offer a free service or educational session, wow them, and ask directly: “Who else should know about us?” The law of reciprocity kicks in fast when you lead with genuine value.

JOHN CLENDENNING
2:20

Hey, well, welcome back to another exciting episode of the Carpet Cleaner Success Podcast. I’ve got, um, somebody I’ve wanted to have on the podcast for a while now since we had a chat a couple months ago. I can’t remember, 3, 4 months ago. Um, so we’re talking to Mark Goodman today. Um, if you’ve been in the cleaning industry 30 years like me or longer, I know you’ve known the name. I knew the name when, when he popped up on my radar. So Mark is the Mark from Mark the Carpetbagger. So Hollywood Hills, his dad ran that business and, and grew that.

JOHN CLENDENNING
2:53

Then he became Fibermark, right? So, and then has coalesced the 2 businesses together. He’s the cleaner to the stars. Best way to mention it. That’s how I knew of his name prior to ever having met him. And I wanted to get him on this podcast for a while just to, you know, tell us a bit of the wisdom and the years and the, the ups and downs and the trials and tribulations from being a rugrat as a kid, like my kids were, um, all the way to, you know, now running, running, running the business, having the business run by the office and, and, and, and not having to be in there day to day and stuff like that. So welcome to the podcast, Mark. I really appreciate you jumping on today.

MARK GOODMAN
3:29

Thank you, John.

JOHN CLENDENNING
3:30

Yeah. So tell us a little bit about the story. Like I gave a little bit of a Coles Notes, the part I know, but, um, So, tell us a little bit about what, you know, like, you know, you grew up as a carpet cleaning rugrat, as we call it.

MARK GOODMAN
3:42

Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
3:43

What attracted Dad to the business? And then why did you carry on it?

MARK GOODMAN
3:49

My father started back in 1963.

JOHN CLENDENNING
3:53

Wow.

MARK GOODMAN
3:53

And he went to law school but decided he liked working with his hands. Instead.

JOHN CLENDENNING
4:03

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
4:04

And I always thought he was a nut job because that idea, and then the idea of Persian rugs, he loved it. And I never, I never understood it. Being in the business now, I totally get it. And, uh, I love it also.

JOHN CLENDENNING
4:24

So did he start with like the area rugs and the Persian rugs, or was it just the traditional wall-to-wall carpet and Von Schrader? 1963 is quite a long time ago. Did we even have truck mounts back then?

MARK GOODMAN
4:37

He did not have a truck mount back then. My grandfather owned a building in Westwood, which is now a parking lot for UCLA. Anyway, As people would move in and move out, my dad would clean the apartments for my grandfather. And, uh, he was in school at UCLA, uh, in law school.

JOHN CLENDENNING
5:11

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
5:12

And then decided law school was not for him. He liked the idea of cleaning. He liked the immediate satisfaction. Whereas you’re gonna wait a year or so to get some kind of kudos. He didn’t like that aspect. He liked working with his hands and his head and he built his company.

JOHN CLENDENNING
5:41

How big did he get it? So 1963, by the time you kind of showed up in the business and understood what it was, not just somebody showing up and seeing what area rugs are and stuff like that. How big did he— did he get his business before he sort of retired out and you were doing your own thing by then?

MARK GOODMAN
6:01

Yeah, I was in business the same time my dad was.

JOHN CLENDENNING
6:05

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
6:06

Which was great around the dinner table.

JOHN CLENDENNING
6:13

Were you competing for the same clients? Was it because I know you do the high end and did you get that from Dad or was that something you’ve transitioned?

MARK GOODMAN
6:22

happen. And, uh, it did happen. Yeah, we just have 2 different personalities.

JOHN CLENDENNING
6:29

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
6:29

And, uh, I was able to take the business much farther and do a lot more with it. Um, when I was working with him, um, it was a joke because he would go into a house and get an $800 job, and I’d go to a similar house and I’d bring an $8,000 job.

JOHN CLENDENNING
6:56

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
6:57

And, um, it’s not that I was doing anything different.

JOHN CLENDENNING
7:03

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
7:04

So you just tell—

JOHN CLENDENNING
7:05

you just be able to talk and tell a better story and just connect with the people a little bit better and stuff like that, maybe, or whatever.

MARK GOODMAN
7:11

Yeah, it’s, um, that’s Really the crux of the business, personalities and knowledge, being able to tell the stories that the clients need to hear.

JOHN CLENDENNING
7:32

Yeah, because it’s in those stories that they understand that they can start to know, like, and trust you. and realize your recommendations are coming from a place of good faith. And when you’re talking about like, you know, $8,000 residential, I’m sure we just knocked a few people off their seats. And, you know, if you’re driving in traffic listening to this, yep, that you heard a real number. But when you target the right people, then we are in a business that should be repeat, retention, referral. Ideally, When we do it right, we create the environment where people trust us. They trust our team as we start to have to hand it off to employees and stuff like that. And we have to start hiring the right people that can hand that, that can do what we did, at least as close enough that we’re not, we don’t lose the business that we get.

MARK GOODMAN
8:23

Right.

JOHN CLENDENNING
8:23

We keep those retention referrals. How did you make that transition? Because that’s always a big moment where, yeah, I can do it well, but I can’t train anybody to do it well.

MARK GOODMAN
8:33

Yeah, I was just gonna mention that’s a huge hurdle.

JOHN CLENDENNING
8:37

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
8:38

Um, and unfortunately, um, sometimes you just have to say, well, the client isn’t gonna know the difference between my work and my employees’. It’s close. And, um, I don’t feel good about that statement. Because I know how I clean and how I do things and how I get them clean and how I talk to the clients. And I can’t expect anyone to be me. Yeah, I had some close calls. And on the other hand, you know, they might go out on their own.

JOHN CLENDENNING
9:20

Yep. Yeah. And sometimes that’s not a bad thing. I’ve had technicians over the years that My goal was never to keep them forever. I would love to, especially our best guys. But I mean, I think the longest I ever had anybody was 8 years. Joe, lovely guy. But we had other guys 4 and 5 years that eventually decided, you know, I’m going back to trade school or I’m going— one became an optometrist.

JOHN CLENDENNING
9:40

So he worked with us for a couple of years and then went to university in the same town. So we were able to keep him as our— one of our backup guys for the next 4 years as he went to university. You know, evenings, weekends, like summer break, stuff like that. If we can help a person out, if they’re good and they represent our company well, um, you make room. Yeah. You hang onto them as hard as you can.

MARK GOODMAN
10:04

Yep, absolutely.

JOHN CLENDENNING
10:06

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
10:06

Had many people like that where I’ve accommodated their schedule.

JOHN CLENDENNING
10:12

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
10:13

Because I’d rather have them than not.

JOHN CLENDENNING
10:16

Yeah. And how did you— so how did you start that? Like, starting is always that hard part because you, you, you, again, you just go to your website alone and you see the list of customers that, you know, everybody knows their names. The, the Mike Tysons and, and, you know, Steven Spielbergs and, and stuff like that. The list is just a who’s who of, of, of Hollywood. Um, if you had to go all the way back to how— why you started that, because there’s many, there’s hundreds of, hundreds of other cleaners that Thousands probably have come and gone in your area, but hundreds at any given time that don’t make that transition. And there’s like only a couple of you that actually sort of kind of compete and target in that, you know, get trusted by that crowd, let alone anything where they talk about how did you get that started? How did that ball get rolling that sort of turned into the repeat and retention engine that it became?

MARK GOODMAN
11:10

Um, good question. Oh, you can’t sit here and say, I want to work with Spielberg. Um, although sometimes I used to read the real estate section and find out who’s buying and who sold and where they’re going.

JOHN CLENDENNING
11:32

And— Okay, there’s a tip. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
11:37

Don’t do that anymore. Although it doesn’t stop me from reading. Yes.

JOHN CLENDENNING
11:47

And then do you really— did you reach out to the real estate agent? Did you reach out to the— like, you’re not going to get a hold of, again, Aaron Spelling. You’re not going to get a hold of, you know, whatever. How did you sort of say, hey, I’m in this market, those are my people, I can’t go to them directly, I got to kind of run around and find the people managing the property, managing the house, another service provider that’s the landscaping? Like, how did you, how did you sort of break that thing?

MARK GOODMAN
12:13

Fortunately, Mr. Spelling’s— I forgot what you call him— personal assistant knew me, and I knew him from another house. So now he’s again at another house.

JOHN CLENDENNING
12:32

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
12:33

Bringing me there. So, um, with these estate managers, if you make them look good and you, uh, educate them, they’ll keep you and they’ll refer you to other estate managers.

JOHN CLENDENNING
12:57

So yeah, and see, what I found is that works as well in like— so if you’re not in a— like, we’re talking estate managers, we’re talking like mansions and all that kind of stuff. Some people are in marketplaces where they don’t have that, but there are still interior designers, there are still the real estate agents that work with the executives that live around Golf Course Road and stuff like that. There is still the opportunity that where your average job is $800 to $1,000 when your competitors are still 3 rooms and a hall for $99? Because those people that, that in those worlds, you need that, you need that referral in, you need that endorsed trust.

MARK GOODMAN
13:35

So what I did is I gave something that I call the dirty class.

JOHN CLENDENNING
13:41

Okay.

MARK GOODMAN
13:42

Dirty class is educating designers and And housekeepers, house staff.

JOHN CLENDENNING
13:54

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
13:54

How to deal with things when they happen and what not to do.

JOHN CLENDENNING
14:00

And really, how did— where did you— where did you give those classes? Like, how did you get that rolling? Because that’s brilliant. I used to go in front of real estate offices and stand in front of them and not teach them about my business, Acclaimed Carpet Cleaning. I would teach them about, hey, how to tell if a rug needs to be removed or carpets removed and replaced before you list the house, or when when you can actually have them clean, deodorize, sanitize, whatever. And if you don’t know, call me in. I’ll do, I’ll do a free assessment and leave the homeowner a free bottle of Spotter for between showings, right? They loved me for that. That was just my presentation, right? How did you get, how did you get your, or where did you do yours? Like, what, how did you do your dirty class in front of people?

MARK GOODMAN
14:35

Um, I did them at, uh, colleges in the design departments. And, um, yep. So a couple schools came to my office, to my shop, because it was better to do it there because I was set up to show them the differences between synthetic and wool and what cleans better.

JOHN CLENDENNING
15:06

Perfect. If you pause for one quick second, we’ll just cut this part out. But if you can turn your camera back on, I think you might have just hit a button with it. We just lost your face.

MARK GOODMAN
15:14

Okay, I’m sorry.

JOHN CLENDENNING
15:15

It’s all good. Our editors will deal with it. We’re good. Perfect. Okay, so you mentioned this, you ran a class out of your shop, you ran, um, and like you met with the people, you gave education. Education is like retention, repeat referral retention business. Educate the public is the industry we’re in. Well, we got a lot of people that think it’s a lead gen business.

JOHN CLENDENNING
15:38

I just need more leads. I need more leads. And they have a leaky bucket where they don’t deliver a world-class service across their staff. They don’t, they don’t repeat, retain their clients for a repeat visit. They don’t just stay in touch. They don’t educate after the sale as well to get the next sale, right? To all that kind of stuff, right?

JOHN CLENDENNING
15:56

Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
15:57

What did you guys do over the years and what do you guys do now that sort of makes sure that, you know, somebody else isn’t nipping at your heels and saying, you know, maybe meeting somebody that— a new house manager, because Aaron Spelling or Tori Spelling has, you know, hired somebody new and they don’t know you guys. Like, how do you— how do you make sure that you’re— you guys stay in the places you’re in right now with the office that’s running the business for you? What do they do now that they’ve picked up from you?

MARK GOODMAN
16:26

I have them reach out to the house again.

JOHN CLENDENNING
16:28

Okay.

MARK GOODMAN
16:30

I do a lot of showrooms. And I just had my new manager go into the showrooms, introduce himself.

JOHN CLENDENNING
16:40

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
16:40

And I called the showrooms first, letting them know that he’s going to come by and do this.

JOHN CLENDENNING
16:49

Yeah. And what kind of showrooms? Like, where are we?

MARK GOODMAN
16:51

Like, what’s that? So, you know, $50,000 sectionals.

JOHN CLENDENNING
17:02

Okay, gotcha.

MARK GOODMAN
17:02

Yeah. It’s all European. Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
17:11

So sort of when you see, if you watched any of those, like the behind the scenes Come In and See My House, or if you watch the Michael Jackson special where part of it he’s walking through, they shut down an entire high-end showroom of something, he’s like, I’ll take 2 of those and one of those. And it’s like, he’s not even like, it’s a Ming vase. He doesn’t even like it. Money doesn’t matter kind of idea. So you’re talking showrooms for the people that outfit these houses and, and yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
17:38

Yeah. And then not only do I get the client, I have the showroom.

JOHN CLENDENNING
17:45

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
17:46

And sometimes I do I’ll give the showroom, the person that referred me, a, um, a kickback.

JOHN CLENDENNING
18:00

Okay.

MARK GOODMAN
18:01

I hate that word, but we all know.

JOHN CLENDENNING
18:02

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
18:03

I’ll give him 10%.

JOHN CLENDENNING
18:06

10? Okay.

MARK GOODMAN
18:07

Yeah. Yep.

JOHN CLENDENNING
18:09

And is that a formal relationship you have with some— like, some of them will keep it— like, everybody’s different. Some people go, you know what, love you, Mark. Yeah, just that’s cool. Other ones want it sort of like, I will refer you, here’s my, you know, I will give them this code. And if, you know, whatever. Do you have some formal ones? Or is it all kind of, you know, old boy club, word of mouth?

MARK GOODMAN
18:29

Nothing formal about it.

JOHN CLENDENNING
18:31

Okay.

MARK GOODMAN
18:34

And then what that does is it leaves me the door open where I just Call them and say, hey, you know, John, how you doing? How’s business? Yeah, I could do for you. Do you have any clients you want to refer me to?

JOHN CLENDENNING
18:50

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
18:51

Um, you know, and they’ll usually say, yeah, um, I have a client that is waiting for the delivery, but I want you to protect everything before it gets to the house. Perfect.

JOHN CLENDENNING
19:10

Yep. So yeah, I used to do that with, um, so I, I was into Theater Town, like there’s the theater crowd, right, on all this kind of stuff. So Shakespeare in Theater Town. And so obviously when I realized that early on, I need to know every interior designer, every bed and breakfast back in the day before the days of Airbnb, all that kind of stuff, all the high-end hotels. But yeah, every interior designer. How I got into them is I called them up and introduced myself and did all that. But I also just brought coffees and met, just chatted up between jobs or between outs and abouts with the reupholsterers.

JOHN CLENDENNING
19:45

Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
19:46

Because interior designers love putting the most expensive and hardest to clean fabric on an item. And there is very few people that knew how to do it. And I would chat up the upholsterer, usually older guys that have been doing the craft for years. And they would put my business cards on the counter. They would introduce me to all the interior designers saying, if you’re putting that fabric on, you need to talk to John. Right. So it sounds like a similar, you know, know a lot of people, the right people, and stay in touch with them and be, be real.

MARK GOODMAN
20:19

And also, when I did get phone calls, I wanted people to call me to pick my brain. For which materials to use.

JOHN CLENDENNING
20:34

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
20:35

Because a lot of designers don’t know shit about cleaning.

JOHN CLENDENNING
20:40

They don’t know crap at all. You’re right.

MARK GOODMAN
20:43

And what they want to use. Yeah. So I love—

JOHN CLENDENNING
20:50

I’m glad to hear now that Haitian cotton isn’t their go-to anymore. Do you remember those days? Like, go back You know, 20— everybody put Haitian cotton in everything and nobody knew how to clean it back in the day. We were like one of the few.

MARK GOODMAN
21:00

So each set opened up.

JOHN CLENDENNING
21:02

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
21:04

Oh, a blue one, a green one, a yellow one, a red one. Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
21:09

Yep. Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
21:11

I come out every so often.

JOHN CLENDENNING
21:14

Yeah. So right now you’ve got the carpet company sort of running like that way where you’ve got people that are still making those connections and staying In those referral partner relationships, again, as casual as you guys have them, but you’re introducing yourself around. How many— like Howard Partridge talked about that for years as well. How, like, how aggressive or active would you say sort of staying in touch with the ones you know, keeping them educated, helping them out anywhere you can? Is it a monthly just to check in every 3 months and then finding new ones, like finding a new showroom, finding a new interior designer so that you keep that that, that, that pond stocked kind of idea and not just hang your hat on 2 or 3 and one of them retires or, you know, moves away and next thing you know, you’re down? Like, how did you— how have you kept the momentum?

MARK GOODMAN
22:05

What I love about designers is they have staff.

JOHN CLENDENNING
22:09

Yes.

MARK GOODMAN
22:09

And the staff, uh, once— and they always go off on their own.

JOHN CLENDENNING
22:15

Okay. So, so one becomes 2 becomes—

MARK GOODMAN
22:18

Yes.

JOHN CLENDENNING
22:19

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
22:20

Yeah. So there’s a couple really big designers that I worked for and, uh, I got an email the other day and, um, I knew the designer died, but all of her little, uh, the girls, all the helpers all went off on their own. So yeah, I like when that happens because It’s not even a sale. They already— yeah, they’re calling me because they know that their boss relied on me. And they saw our work.

JOHN CLENDENNING
22:58

Yeah. So, and that’s so what I tell a lot of people nowadays, because, you know, we’re in that age bracket, to be straight up, where the younger crowd is like, how we run our business is how, again, how dad would have run a business, how grandpa would have run a business. And you actually literally have dad and grandpa in the business. I didn’t, I was First generation in cleaning. But it’s, you know, the old days when business owners talked to business owners and knew each other and referred each other and trusted each other. Not saying that the internet broke that, but there’s a lot of people that hid behind, let me just try and be a brand, right? Maybe franchising didn’t help this as well because they all try and hide behind a brand. But even in a franchise, the owner should put himself out there in the public to be the expert in the category, right? If you’re in cleaning and textiles, how do you educate the public anywhere you can? Because when you come across being the one they can go to like that, the thought leader, then it is where the staff says, hey, or you’ve got a property manager and he leaves this building and goes to that one. Not only did he hand you off to the other guy, Because, hey, I’ve always used these guys.

JOHN CLENDENNING
24:10

They’re great. He goes to the new building and says, by the way, I want to bring my carpet cleaning company with me because they’re better than the guys you got. Right?

MARK GOODMAN
24:18

And that’s the case. Yes.

JOHN CLENDENNING
24:20

Yeah. If you can. Yeah. If it can happen, like you want to build that little bit of a muscle. So, yeah. Yeah. So, to get into the— and this is what we tell a lot of our— the people that follow me is, How do you get into these higher-end neighborhoods when they don’t trust the commodity marketing? 80%, 90% of carpet cleaners, 3 rooms in a hall, $99, $169, you know, $199, whatever they’re up to these days. And your vans will be rusty.

JOHN CLENDENNING
24:56

You can’t keep a business like that. You can’t keep enough employees like that. You can’t make enough money like that to whatever. But that’s what everybody sees, so they think that’s the business, and they try and get into these neighborhoods. They have no clue how to get into it because they think it’s the same thing. Oh, let’s just put coupons on their doorstep. And I don’t think there is somebody living on Golf Course Road that cares about a $99 special carpet cleaning coupon. It’s the wrong message.

MARK GOODMAN
25:19

Yeah, you’d be surprised. Yeah, we’re paying you thousands And this guy’s going to do the same thing for $99.

JOHN CLENDENNING
25:31

Yeah. Yeah. And again, it is that relationship with the house manager or the person that trusts you. Like if they trust the interior designer and the interior designer trusts you, you’ve come across that bridge, right? So now you’ve got the— you’ve got at least the foot in the door with a bit of authority and then you can start your game.

MARK GOODMAN
25:52

Well, the other thing is Like you said, people know the name. I—

JOHN CLENDENNING
25:57

yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
25:59

So I have that first, then I come with the designer, and then the showroom selling them the products are referring me to.

JOHN CLENDENNING
26:08

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
26:09

So, um, you got 3 different, uh, avenues of—

JOHN CLENDENNING
26:14

Yeah. And what do you, what do you think was the biggest way for the, for you to get the name out? Because that is like that brand awareness. helps everything. Like, people doing pay-per-click in smaller markets and, and stuff like that, where they— if you know the brand, your pay-per-click works twice as good. If you’re the best-known cleaner in the marketplace, your door hangers, your every-door mail, even like into the right neighborhoods, like everything works better because you have a brand awareness to start with. Um, how did you get the name out there first? Obviously your dad, but then FiberMark. And because that, that’s a whole new name, that’s a whole new product, right? And A whole new business. How did you, how did you get the name out there so that you did have a bit of name equity in the marketplace?

MARK GOODMAN
26:55

I had trucks that were lettered.

JOHN CLENDENNING
26:58

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
26:59

I would walk into, I’d walk into showrooms, into real estate agencies.

JOHN CLENDENNING
27:07

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
27:08

Hit the carpets and upholstery and I’d say, I can get that spot out. Yeah, I can do right now and I’m going to do for free. All I ask is you refer me.

JOHN CLENDENNING
27:23

Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s— yeah, because give to get. Bob Burg, The Go-Giver. I recommend that book to anybody. Listen to it if you don’t read, right? You’re in the truck all day long or you’re driving around, you’re out doing these, these meet and greets. Listen, like, learn that I can take that out for free. I want to give you a bit of value, some value to start this relationship off. If you lead with a giving hand, it comes across way more genuine.

MARK GOODMAN
27:51

So, my father and I, when we split, it wasn’t a good split.

JOHN CLENDENNING
28:00

Okay.

MARK GOODMAN
28:00

So, going off on my own, I went into some furniture showrooms. And, uh, I looked at the owner and said, I can clean anything in this showroom and I’m gonna give you 2 days for free.

JOHN CLENDENNING
28:24

Wow. Bold.

MARK GOODMAN
28:26

All I ask is that you refer me.

JOHN CLENDENNING
28:29

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
28:29

The first day he gave me 5 referrals. And, and I started a relationship where he allowed me to set up a shop in the back of his building.

JOHN CLENDENNING
28:42

Oh, wow.

MARK GOODMAN
28:43

And within the first month, I had a key to the place.

JOHN CLENDENNING
28:48

That’s awesome.

MARK GOODMAN
28:51

He hooked me up with a company called Soil Shield.

JOHN CLENDENNING
28:56

Okay.

MARK GOODMAN
28:57

Soil Shield was a protection company Where if you had it sprayed by Soil Shield, if the spot didn’t come out, they would, they would replace whatever the item of furniture was.

JOHN CLENDENNING
29:19

Wow. Yeah. So a solid warranty because they backed their product well. Yep.

MARK GOODMAN
29:25

Yeah. They backed it with me.

JOHN CLENDENNING
29:27

Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah. So what got you so confident? Because I know you do like, you do the heirloom stuff and the specialty fabric care and high-end furnishings. And we’ve talked about that already, but that is one of your, like, your company’s claim to fame. How did you get so confident in that ability to walk in and make that statement? Because The reason, again, nobody else did that. You stood out like, hey, I’m willing to do this for free. I’m willing to build the relationship with you and prove myself to you. And you had the confidence to do it.

JOHN CLENDENNING
30:05

Where did the confidence come from?

MARK GOODMAN
30:07

Ego.

JOHN CLENDENNING
30:09

Okay. Any training at all or just ego? Like, how did you know you weren’t gonna turn a Haitian cotton couch brown?

MARK GOODMAN
30:19

Sometimes I did.

JOHN CLENDENNING
30:21

Okay.

MARK GOODMAN
30:22

And then I had to fix it.

JOHN CLENDENNING
30:25

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
30:26

So, you know, on-site training.

JOHN CLENDENNING
30:30

Yeah. On-the-job training. It’s like build the plane on the way down training. Yeah, that’s awesome.

MARK GOODMAN
30:39

I protected this wall that had 3-foot by 2-foot panels. That were padded and the wall itself was— they used the wall as a headboard.

JOHN CLENDENNING
30:54

Okay.

MARK GOODMAN
30:55

It protected it and it left lines and it’s because the sprayer nozzle was—

JOHN CLENDENNING
31:04

Oh, yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
31:05

Yeah. Well, the problem was the designer called me later and said, Mark, we’ve got a big problem. I went back to the house and the guy I was with, he goes, Mark, let’s just overspray it. So we sprayed the whole wall again and overspread it much heavier. Just blend it in.

JOHN CLENDENNING
31:29

Turn the whole thing into one big line basically.

MARK GOODMAN
31:33

Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
31:36

I think you’re right, part of it is sort of being willing to be smart enough to be willing to take that risk, but jump in and do it. A friend of mine, PJ, in Auckland, New Zealand, had one of the buildings he does clean. He works for high-end buildings and high-end properties and stuff like that. And one of the commercial buildings there asked him if he happened to know anything about drive or the parking lot line painting, just as an example. And PJ went, you know what? Let me look into that for you. Came back and he said, you know what? I think we can do that for you. And one of my guys is willing to do it. So he, they secured the contract, bought the equipment, did the lines.

JOHN CLENDENNING
32:18

One of his guys wanted, didn’t mind, you know, sort of doing that kind of stuff as well. They do commercial and residential and industrial sort of cleaning and stuff like that. And yeah, and have a whole new line of business that they want now. The job paid for the equipment. The the the the equipment he needed. The the set—it’s it’s a lot of labor and a little bit of machinery. And now he’s got a something else he can offer because he does commercial buildings and stuff like that. And and um yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
32:44

So again, that idea just be willing to help and learn and and do so. And then yeah, doesn’t hurt to have a little bit of ego or confidence to say hey, because that walking in the door is the. Is the, is a key that people miss, to be honest, right? How did I get to $10,000 a month in 1995 as a kid that just came off the road in a, in a rock band? Well, Tony Robbins, Awake the Giant Within, because I’m shy. I hated talking to people. So I moved to a new town. I wouldn’t know anybody other than my sister and my brother-in-law, rented a broom closet and just started walking up and down the street doing exactly what I did. I’m willing, I’m here, I want to introduce myself and I’m willing to take a free spot out. Free spots and stands, right? Some of them I got referrals, some of them I— some of them turned into great relationships.

JOHN CLENDENNING
33:32

The one hotel I walked into, the mother that, like, she owned the hotel, but father had died, kids were running it, like a big, big hotel around the theater. And Eleanor turned out to— they gave me a try on one hallway, and it turns out Eleanor knew everybody, ran the town almost. And took me under her wing, saw this young kid and had me clean the house. Thought I was, you know, again, nice relationship. And she said, are you part of the Airbnb Association? You’re part of the Property Manager Association, whatever? No. Well, I am. I’m going to take you to the next meetings with me. Right? Had I met hundreds of people before I met Eleanor? Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
34:14

But I continued to meet people and then I met Eleanor and then I continued to meet a lot more people.

MARK GOODMAN
34:19

Yeah, absolutely.

JOHN CLENDENNING
34:21

Yeah. So there might be an Eleanor, or there might be a, you know, one of these designers. There might be the 50th person you meet. It might be the 2nd. It might be the 100th. So just keep going. Yeah, right. That’s the growth.

JOHN CLENDENNING
34:36

That, like, let them get the name out there in today’s world, online, offline, everywhere. Walk in the door, but just be— grow the business again the way grandpa and dad would show up. Don’t hide behind, you know, you know, I need a Google ad, I need a Facebook ad. You can do that to promote the brand. Sure, get the word out. But again, if they know you already, they will pick that ad. If they don’t know you already, now it’s a crapshoot. Now your ad costs are way through the roof as well, right? So that’s all part of it.

JOHN CLENDENNING
35:08

So how big is the company right now? Like how many, how many Staff? Does the cleaners, the crew?

MARK GOODMAN
35:17

And 2 people in the office.

JOHN CLENDENNING
35:20

And how many on the road? Sorry.

MARK GOODMAN
35:21

6.

JOHN CLENDENNING
35:22

6. Perfect. Yeah. And there, do you have different levels of competence? Like if somebody’s going out to do an heirloom something, is that certain guys in the company versus everybody cross-trained and know how to do the fancier stuff that you would have known how to do?

MARK GOODMAN
35:38

When you say cross-train, that’s an interesting term, and the reason being is the, these, the cleaning has a simplicity to it.

JOHN CLENDENNING
35:52

Mm-hmm.

MARK GOODMAN
35:54

Through the years, I’ve noticed a lot of times you don’t need all these chemicals, and you can get away with that. hand tool often with a lot of spots. And you learn just by using water or something that’s non-soapy to fix things.

JOHN CLENDENNING
36:21

Yeah. And I think part of that is the higher end the stuff is, the better it started anyways. So in a lot of cases, again, except for these Haitian cottons, if you know, like how to use them. But there is a sort of a low-end builder’s grade something is, you know, terrible. But a high-end luxury— Well, there are—

MARK GOODMAN
36:41

yeah, there’s a little bit silk things you got to be careful with. And then of course, the 4-letter word viscose.

JOHN CLENDENNING
36:54

Yep. Gotta love those viscose area rugs and And rayon furniture and oh my gosh.

MARK GOODMAN
37:01

Yeah. Yeah. Fortunately, people don’t really want to hear what you say about viscose because the rug cost them 20 grand through the— oh, she told me it was silk. Yeah. Don’t be mad at her because she was probably told it was silk also. Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
37:24

So now do you do, do you run them in an area rug? Like the area rugs that you do, are they back at an area rug shop? Do you do a, like, do you take them out and do plant cleaning on them?

MARK GOODMAN
37:31

Yes. Yeah. Got a 7,000-foot building. Yeah. I don’t have any of the fancy pits and dryers and spinners and— no, no, I do have a rack to hang things when I’m done. But being in Santa Monica, I have every environment law there. I can’t even wash my trucks.

JOHN CLENDENNING
38:01

Do you dust them at least? Do you use the Rug Badger or one of those? Do you do the grid and the shaking?

MARK GOODMAN
38:09

I had Dusty come out to my shop Yeah. And he did a hard sell, my father and I, and, uh, we bought one, but we returned it soon after. It just wasn’t for us. Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
38:32

Yeah. So, so you don’t even bother with that sort of thing. It’s like, again, as you said, keep it simple has been your, your, your claim to fame is like, don’t be like— there’s a lot of people that, that as technicians of the industry, they’re almost technician first. They’re, they’re really happy with their zipper wand and their, their XPSI truck and their— and which is great, but the customer doesn’t, doesn’t necessarily see that, that massive difference as a, you know, in, in the end result. Because it, as we always know, it’s, it’s the person doing the cleaning and their attention to detail That still becomes one of the most important aspects of it. Yeah. Is the right person on the job.

MARK GOODMAN
39:14

You could have the right person using a portable and the right person using a truck mount. Yeah. Great job. And then, so I don’t own a truck mount. I used to. Yeah. But, um, personally I like truck mounts. I like the heat.

MARK GOODMAN
39:34

I like the suction.

JOHN CLENDENNING
39:36

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
39:37

Unliness. And we only use portables because we do only, you know, 90% residential.

JOHN CLENDENNING
39:51

Yeah. Yeah. And I think in the houses that you’re in as well, like that whole hoses through the house and all the way, like, if you can just take— if you can move from this wing to that wing and here to there, it, it, it, it kind of— there is an efficiency to not having tied up to one machine roaring in the driveway, right?

MARK GOODMAN
40:10

So the presentation isn’t great. Yeah, the door is open, you have a loud noise, you have water dripping. Um, there’s nothing pretty about that.

JOHN CLENDENNING
40:24

Yep. And yeah, I agree. Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
40:29

And I’ve hired companies to come into my home that are tripping.

JOHN CLENDENNING
40:36

Yeah. Now, did you do that as a sort of almost like a mystery shop to see how they’re doing? Or what was the reason why you brought other people in? Yeah. So, no, sorry. And I agree. I think we all need to do that as well. I mean, if we’re not mystery shopping our competitors on how they’re answering the phones, how they’re pricing, how they’re working with clients. We just always think we’re the best, which is great, but we should also be the best with a little bit of governance to know, hey, somebody’s starting to come up and nip at my heels, right? Let’s see what they’re all about so that I can learn from them if I need to, or at least understand when I’m educating my clients, we do this, most of the others do this, and you come from a place of knowing, not just guessing.

MARK GOODMAN
41:19

So yeah. Yeah. The, the other reason I use someone else is because, um, I live 30 miles away from my shop. Yep. And my dad, my dad was about 45 and he was getting 3 guys to clean his home. I said, no, you’re not. I said, we’re gonna hire a company over by you.

JOHN CLENDENNING
41:45

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
41:46

He goes, I want another company. But it doesn’t make any sense. Yeah, I have 3 guys that can make money for us. And pay the other guy, it’s gonna be cheaper anyway.

JOHN CLENDENNING
42:02

Yeah. That’s interesting. Yeah, especially at that distance. Yeah, keep the guys busy where they are. They’re gonna be happier too. It’s okay to go and clean the boss’s house or whatever, you know. But It’s always— they prefer not to as well. The technicians are, you know what I mean? Like, it’s— yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
42:17

So good, good on both ends. You got a bit of mystery shopping going on and you also keep the guys in their lane as well. So yeah. Yeah. So yeah, go ahead.

MARK GOODMAN
42:28

I have them come to my house and clean and I actually train them while they’re here. Okay.

JOHN CLENDENNING
42:36

So And who does the training now? Because I, I get— I know you’re, you’re trying to work from home and stuff like that. Who, like, as the company has matured and as you’ve, like, you’re well established, um, do you have like a technician manager that’s been around for, for years that trains the other guys? Is it a rotation like we talked about earlier? How do you kind of make sure the new— the newest guy in the door, um, gets up to speed because of, you know, yeah, needs to be congenial, but he also has to do a great, great job. You know, he’s got to treat the homeowner like he’s their nephew or grandson, you know what I mean? Kind of idea. You got, you got to have the right people that can present and, and also have the app— the attitude to want to deliver that great result.

MARK GOODMAN
43:21

Yeah, that’s the most important is you need someone that wants to do a good job. Yeah. Because I tell people, you are your worst Yeah. I mean, if I can make me happy, I know that the client’s gonna be happy.

JOHN CLENDENNING
43:38

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
43:39

So, and as— question about who, um, we cross-train.

JOHN CLENDENNING
43:47

Okay.

MARK GOODMAN
43:47

Meaning you could go out with this guy this day, this guy, uh, the other day. Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
43:54

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
43:55

They’ll learn different ways to do everything.

JOHN CLENDENNING
43:59

Yeah. And how many guys are typically on a job? Because you’re in the bigger homes, I don’t think it’d be a lot of one guy on a job getting bogged down forever. Like, do you send multi-crews out to the bigger jobs, bigger homes, if they’re doing, you know, a large swath of upholstery and carpets or whatever?

MARK GOODMAN
44:19

Um, typically 2 guys in a truck. Yeah. Sometimes we’ll have 2 trucks going somewhere depending on how big.

JOHN CLENDENNING
44:38

Yeah. And what is the mix of services right now then? Like, so because again, with those house managers and stuff like that and interior designers, they kind of like to know that you They can call somebody. You do the area rugs, you’ll do the heirloom furniture and stuff like that. What else do you like? You know, and the carpets, obviously. But what else do you do? Like, do you get into the tile and grout cleaning or the stone floor cleaning? No. Do you refer somebody for that that you trust, or do you leave that to them?

MARK GOODMAN
45:06

I refer to them and I tell them if he doesn’t start reciprocating, I’m gonna stop. Yeah, I tell everybody, I said, well, it doesn’t work. Yeah, I told him how to do it. I said, Jim— James, you know how you’re doing all the floors? You’re typically doing the entry, right? Well, what’s in the entry before you do the floor?

JOHN CLENDENNING
45:34

Those area rugs.

MARK GOODMAN
45:35

Yeah, I said, why don’t you just always tell them That you’re going to get this clean for them. Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
45:49

Yeah. No, again, I think that’s part of that, that whole— the right people in our lives know the right people. If they do a good job and are willing to work and referable, like if they’re referable, they should be willing to reciprocate anyways, because that becomes that relationship that we Like we all know about, right? So it’s like the, again, the old folks used to, you know, the, the old business owners, the guys would sit around the barbershop on Saturday with the butcher over here and the whatever, you know, you sit and chat and tell stories and refer each other and, you know, all of that kind of stuff like that became what BNI groups eventually. And that whole idea is, can you, can you know somebody you can trust to refer and make it a rewarding, a win-win relationship for both sides? So, so what other services? So we got the carpet, the upholstery, the area rug. Is there anything else on that? Do you do any draperies? Do you do it like— is there any like, where does it end?

MARK GOODMAN
46:46

We will do draperies. I don’t like doing them.

JOHN CLENDENNING
46:51

No, they’ve always sucked. But yeah, do you do them in place or do you take them out?

MARK GOODMAN
46:56

I do not take them up or down.

JOHN CLENDENNING
46:58

Good. Yeah, that is, that is the moment where every clip decides it wants to break. And, you know, it’s Yeah. So yeah, good call on that one. You guys do leather as well? Like leather cleaning, restoration, things like that? Any—

MARK GOODMAN
47:11

Yes.

JOHN CLENDENNING
47:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that’s a big service because again, people in higher-end homes have their leather and they still have their dogs and cats that want to scratch on this or whatever. They spill something on that, they don’t know it’s— they didn’t know they got nubuck. They didn’t know they got, you know, aniline dye. They don’t— it doesn’t have a coating on it. They didn’t realize that. You know, that that bagel, you know, butter and cream cheese size down is going to actually leave a mark. You know, on their on their their leather and stuff like that.

JOHN CLENDENNING
47:41

So so knowing how to clean it one thing, knowing how to actually restore it and be a little bit more more in that level does definitely put you in front of interior designers and higher end people as well. That’s a skill to that’s that’s a specialty that the rest. of the crowd will choose not to learn, probably. Right? Right. So all of those things. So, so yeah, so I think, yeah, go ahead.

MARK GOODMAN
48:09

Yeah. Do it myself. Yeah. I outsource several things that we do. Okay. I outsource my drapers, I outsource my leather, I outsource my air duct cleaning.

JOHN CLENDENNING
48:29

Okay.

MARK GOODMAN
48:31

Now, on the other hand, I know how to do all this work, and because I know how to explain it, um, it’s, it’s an easier sell. So if you’re going to use some other, uh, vendor, yeah, best to be taught how to do it.

JOHN CLENDENNING
48:52

Yeah. Yeah. And do you— so do you get a commission or like a— is that 10 or 20% that you take for giving them the work?

MARK GOODMAN
49:01

No. Nope. Typically, I’ll almost double their cost.

JOHN CLENDENNING
49:07

Gotcha. Okay. Even better than I thought. I was gonna say, no, I do it for free. I’m going, no, you don’t. So, so yeah, so you can sell better. So you get to They’re going to charge it. And do you just bill directly and pay them? Or do they know what they’re getting, what you’re getting paid? Like, do you keep— like, how do you— how public do you keep that between you and them?

MARK GOODMAN
49:25

I don’t. Yeah. So they know what I’m doing. Yep. Sometimes they will collect for me. Oh, good. I always collect the same day. Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
49:40

Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
49:41

Yep. That’s cool. And so good relationship for them. They’re getting paid their rate, which is great. It’s not like they have to give you a kickback off their rate. You’re getting paid because you have the client relationship. If they tried to steal the client, not talking to anybody, you know, Mark at Rainbow back in the day, trying to give him work to re-dye carpets and fix bleach spots. And next thing you know, he’s pitching to steal the client.

JOHN CLENDENNING
50:04

Well, guess what? Mark never got from me ever again. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you’re not referring somebody who’s going to try and steal your clients because We were giving them quite a bit of work until we gave them zero, you know what I mean? So yeah, honorable people with the right attitude and understanding that there’s an in with you to get work, and especially if they don’t have to discount their prices, it’s like their full rate, you get more, win-win for everybody. So yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
50:30

To give you an example, air ducts last year, Was $145,000.

JOHN CLENDENNING
50:40

Yeah. Your take on it for, for jobbing it out to somebody else.

MARK GOODMAN
50:46

Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
50:46

Yeah, exactly. So, and again, we do know the houses that you’re in aren’t just— some of them aren’t just one system, right? Like heating or cooling or whatever. It’s like the bigger the house, the more you got 3 furnace, 3 or 4 furnace systems, 3 of them. And you’ve got, you know, the guy has to know what they’re doing. They have to know how to do zone bags, just almost like commercial. They have to, they have to understand the system well enough. So you’re going to be trusting the right person in there anyways. That’s a better business owner already who isn’t just, you know, a guy with a pig nose blower or a van with billows on it who just wants to rattle through a bunch of dryer vents and some, you know, quick 10-register houses.

JOHN CLENDENNING
51:25

You know what I mean? So, yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
51:27

Yeah. A house that had 200 registers.

JOHN CLENDENNING
51:32

Wow. Yeah. Huge. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think it would be better to job that out to somebody who loves doing that than it is to try and either have a crew that will do it for you consistently, or we both know that the ideal carpet cleaning tech who works on fabric and upholstery and area rugs and stuff like that isn’t necessarily the ideal duct cleaning tech. It’s a different, it’s a whole different service, a different feeling about it. Everything about it is like, yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
52:05

And it’s the guy that’s good with upholstery and fabrics and stuff like that finds it way too mechanical and, you know, industrial for them. Right. So it’s not, not their specialty at all.

MARK GOODMAN
52:16

Yeah. Because I mean, you have guys that are better at upholstery and better at carpets.

JOHN CLENDENNING
52:23

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
52:24

So yeah, I jumped across the people.

JOHN CLENDENNING
52:30

Yeah. No, that’s a good way to do it. That’s that again. No, no. What your, your limitations. Again, my buddy PJ painting lines now, he’s got one guy. Maybe at some point that guy spins off, you know, PJ just becomes an investor and the guy runs the whole business and does that because he likes that. But that’s not a guy that likes to deal with area rugs and meticulous cleaning.

JOHN CLENDENNING
52:48

That’s a guy that likes more of the— on his team that also doesn’t mind doing, you know, industrial cleanups and things like that, right? That’s his thing. So if you get one good, if they leave, you’ve got a problem, right? So it is better to sort of say, hey, I can— I’ve got somebody who wants to do this for the next 20 years. Why don’t we just give them the work? And I, as you said, you can sell the customer, your team could sell the customer at the better pricing anyways. So. Yeah, my—

MARK GOODMAN
53:17

yeah, good. My leather guy I met working for my father, and then I stopped working with my dad. I went off on my own, and when my dad would get a phone call for leather, he’d send the guy out to give the bid, and I’d give the bid myself. And yeah, I knew what his numbers were. Yeah, but it’s funny because, um, I would give my bid and 9 times out of 10 I would get the job over the same guy. So the only issue I had was when we got the job, the same guy would go out and do my work.

JOHN CLENDENNING
54:06

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
54:07

That was only an issue a couple of times.

JOHN CLENDENNING
54:09

Yeah. Well, who was it that said— I can’t remember who it was, but you’re— the price you charge is all related to your ability to sell, right? I would put an ethics in there, like ethically sell. Like there’s obviously, you know, you’re going to do the job better, guarantee it more, do it like— do it just like— again, they’re, they’re, they’re buying the brand FiberMark, Mark the Carpetbagger. going to make sure it’s done, done well. And for that, there is a surcharge, there is a premium. Like you’re providing the better brand, the better service, the better, all of that. So there is like, again, that’s why, that’s why you can get a coffee at McDonald’s for 99 cents or whatever, but you can also buy, you know, a fufu latte, whatever, at Starbucks or, or beyond, even the higher end at like $20. It’s still caffeine in a cup, but the difference is the presentation, the feel, the education.

JOHN CLENDENNING
55:09

We’re humans. We buy on emotion and then try and justify with logic afterwards. And as long as when we sell, if we can sell it that way, you know?

MARK GOODMAN
55:17

Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
55:18

Here’s what I’d like you to, you know, here’s the feelings I would like to, you know, imprint upon you so that when you make a decision, you’re based on, I think, I feel Mark’s going to do a better job and his company’s going to be— and again, if the guy that shows up is the same guy, So be it, you know what I mean? But it’s— you sold them, you know, a value that will have them coming back. Like, if you’re too goofy high, they won’t come back next time anyways. So, you’ve got to be reasonable, but you do not have to be a commodity at all.

MARK GOODMAN
55:47

Right.

JOHN CLENDENNING
55:48

Right. So, what would you say, like, kind of famous last words, you’ve met a lot of carpet cleaners over the years. You’ve met a lot of people in our industry. You’ve seen, you know, Guy, competitors in your area come and go. And what would you say to the younger class of guys in our industry, the guys that are in their late 20s, early 30s, having just gotten into this, been into this for the, you know, next, you know, last 4 or 5, 6 years and haven’t really got to any sort of growth or scale. They’re kind of still figuring themselves out. What kind of advice would you give to the, you know, those guys going back to the, you know, the 28, 29, 30-year-old, you know, Mark Goodman himself? What would you say to these guys is really where they should hang their hat, chase the business if they’re going to—

MARK GOODMAN
56:40

You might want to join some of these places like the CFI.

JOHN CLENDENNING
56:48

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
56:49

The Cleaning Fabricator Institute, uh, because you’re gonna meet people that wanna help you. Mm-hmm. And it’s a great place to learn.

JOHN CLENDENNING
57:00

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
57:00

And yep, you can look on the internet and, and watch a lot of videos, but I would say one of the best places is probably the CFI has meetings every month. And, or you could find like yourself, I’m sorry, yourself and stuff. We are very approachable.

JOHN CLENDENNING
57:34

Yeah. And I think it is an education thing. I think you’ve got to be a student of life and a student of business. It’s if you’re driving around in your truck and you’re listening to country music, heavy metal, K-pop, I don’t care what it is, or you’re driving around learning how to, during the day, how to grow a business, how to think, how to sell better, how to communicate better. Like you’re upping your skills just like you would if you are a doctor, you have to go back for continuing education. You’re in real estate, you have to go back. You’re in insurance, right? It’s all required to maintain your certificate. In carpet cleaning, it’s— or your own business, running your own service business, it kind of isn’t.

JOHN CLENDENNING
58:17

But, and I think a lot of people forget that there are things like, like you should join the associations, you should get around the other people that are pushing themselves forward, learning their craft better. You have, you have that resource that way and learning how to sell and grow a business better.

MARK GOODMAN
58:35

Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
58:35

Because we are in an industry that, 85% never get out of the truck. 2% only ever sell it for the price of the trucks, and less than half of 1% make it past 7 figures. Well, why is that? Like, well, a lot of that is because we kind of get in our own way and think we know everything and don’t learn the missing pieces from the people that have already gone there, right? We might learn how to clean something on the forum, but we haven’t learned how to build the business. From somebody who has grown an enterprise like you. One of the reasons why we do these podcasts, right, is to say, hey, let’s, let’s change your mindset a little bit. There is who you know, how you meet them, how you approach them.

MARK GOODMAN
59:16

All that. I had another cleaner come to me and go, Mark, I want to buy your business. And what I’ve learned by talking to you Is that I spent way too much of my time learning how to clean. And I didn’t spend enough time learning the business. And I should have done it your way. And honestly, I never thought of it that way.

JOHN CLENDENNING
59:51

Yeah. But you, on your own, credit where credit is due. I started in a town of 30,000 people and had to hustle to a million-dollar business because I didn’t know what I didn’t know. You started in the right town with the right people, you know, and understood this, the gift of going out and introducing and meeting people and the gift of sales and the gift of conversation is invaluable. There’s like, it opens so many doors. So, The more you can do that, even if you’re doing it red-faced at first because you feel like a fraud or a phony at first, whatever, the more you can do that, the more you’ll stand out against everybody else who just won’t.

MARK GOODMAN
1:00:35

Right.

JOHN CLENDENNING
1:00:36

Yeah. Cool. All right. Well, I appreciate the conversation. I will definitely publish this out everywhere. If anybody has any questions or anything like that for Mark, obviously, as always, comment in the comments on Spotify, YouTube, whatever. We’ll pass them along to him. Um, you know, keep an eye on what he’s doing, watch everything that’s going on.

JOHN CLENDENNING
1:00:56

Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
1:00:57

Yeah. And there’s a couple people that I mentor that I met in the CFI.

JOHN CLENDENNING
1:01:04

Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
1:01:05

And, uh, yeah, find a mentor for sure. Like, I mean, if you’re mentoring people, my, my gosh, great for them, you know what I mean? Like, and I had mentors early in the day and then became a mentor. Same idea. Like, it’s like You know, give back, right? The go-giver again. But, you know, I had people that took me under their wing when I was, you know, 26, 27 and met Dr. John Harvey, who was a CEO and a business consultant who happened to own a cleaning business on the side. I met him at that, but then learned business from him. You know what I mean? Because I was a guitarist in a band, not a university graduate, right? As they say.

JOHN CLENDENNING
1:01:40

So, you know what I mean? It’s like, do that and engage. Know your competitors, meet them. be friends with as many as you can, as long as they’re not assholes, right? Like, make a community out of it. You might be able to get a hand. You might find that duct cleaner, that, you know, the guy that can help out with the other stuff that, you know, and create that relationship because you’ve met. And, you know, we actually used to have meetups at the Jack Astor’s and, you know, just a bunch of carpet cleaners. Let’s get together and have some wings and talk shop and laugh. you know, once every couple months kind of idea, just decades ago, 20, 30 years ago, just to know a few of them.

JOHN CLENDENNING
1:02:21

Not everybody showed up, but the word got out to everybody. You were allowed to, we could have conversations. Yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
1:02:26

That’s the reason I go to these, uh, CFI meetings is to catch up with my friends. Yeah. And everybody, like even yourself, came at me with, you know, cleaner to the stars. Yeah, I mean, you’ve got— I’ve got a couple.

JOHN CLENDENNING
1:02:49

Yeah, you’ve got a lot of wisdom to share, and I appreciate, I appreciate you jumping on this call. Any famous last words before we let you go? Anything that you want to put out to the audience that, you know, anything at all, any connections, any sage advice?

MARK GOODMAN
1:03:03

Baby steps. Okay. When you clean, baby steps. Don’t think you know it all. Yeah. And that you can clean anything you want. Baby step it. You get in trouble when you think you know it all.

MARK GOODMAN
1:03:22

Yeah. I’m the only one that’s ever used my insurance.

JOHN CLENDENNING
1:03:29

That’s telling right there. So you’re the only one that the team’s not allowed to screw up? You’ll give it the run.

MARK GOODMAN
1:03:37

Well, it’s because being the owner allows you a little more leeway. The problem was, again, my ego cost me about $4,000. I thought for sure I could clean these elevator corridors, and I did. But I also lighten them all up. Yeah.

JOHN CLENDENNING
1:04:08

So yeah, not bad. I’ve— we’ve had it where I bought a Haitian couch, loveseat, and chair. One of our technicians was left on the job and shouldn’t have been, and too early on. So we, we bought it through insurance, had to replace it, but I made sure we got it back at the shop and it became the the learn how to clean Haitian cotton pieces. Like we would just soak them, destroy them, yellow them, get them back again, teach the guys so that as we ran into that, they were just more skilled. Right. So every time, every now and then a mistake could be a learning experience too, for everything else. So.

MARK GOODMAN
1:04:44

Yeah. If you don’t learn through your mistakes, there’s your mistake.

JOHN CLENDENNING
1:04:49

Yeah. There we go. I think that’s the title of our podcast too. That’s exactly it. So, yeah.

MARK GOODMAN
1:04:58

John, thank you so much.

JOHN CLENDENNING
1:05:00

Hey, no, I appreciate the chat as always, my friend. And yeah, for everybody else, just any questions for Mark, then just in the comments, we’ll pass them along. And yeah, join your local association and get involved and be the guy that stands out in your marketplace because we know most of them won’t. So, with that said, thanks for staying, sticking around for the Carpet Cleaning Success Podcast, and we will see you all next time.